Thanks "Amazing" for your detailed analysis and thorough examination. I found it to be extremely interesting. I would like to write a letter to the WTS on a point or two that you brought out. May I have your permission to do so since you did all the work? My question will be in my pursuit of accurate knowledge. Do you suppose that asking such questions will trigger a red flag? These questions will have to be directed to WTS (New York) as they approve of all articles. It wouldn't make sense for them to contact my local congregation elders for them to explain it to me, would it? Thanks and I'm always looking as my quest to worship God in spirit and truth heightens! Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
Alligator Wisdom
JoinedPosts by Alligator Wisdom
-
12
9-1-06 WT Example of False Arguments
by Amazing inwatchtower publications exhibit a level of ignorance and in adequate education by its writers that is astounding, especially when it comes to logic and false arguments.
i recently received a copy of the 9-1-06 watchtower and discovered that it is a great example of how false arguments are used to manipulate the readers - primarily jehovah's witnesses.. passive voice: one of the prime ways that a false argument is made is through the passive voice.
example: "it is said that ...," or "there are those who say that ...," or "people wonder about ...," or "further, it was felt that .... ".
-
-
-
25
Bethel Letter to Publishers (US Bethel Layoffs)
by V inevery september, at the beginning of the jw "service year", a letter to publishers is printed in the km.
this letter addresses recent layoffs at bethel:.
our kingdom ministry september 2006 (for united states of america), page 1. dear kingdom publishers:.
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
My inquiry is: "Exactly who among the Bethel family are being laid off?"
Are we just talking about older ones? Or are the ones being released of a certain "elite" class (regardless of age) in regards to teaching and/or taking the lead in congregational activitiy which can help local congregations in those areas?
There are some older ones at Bethel who may work at simple jobs (i.e. laundry or kitchen) and have been doing so for their entire Bethel career. Would they be chosen to leave because of their experienced qualification in congregation functionality? I know of several old timers who are very comfortable in the way of life at Bethel doing simple and unadorned jobs and aren't the type that are power hungry or zealous in climbing any ladder in any organizational setting. Of course, they can easily be replaced by a 19 year old youth. By they haven't been for decades in some cases. Is the WTS being selective ("wise and discreet") when picking certain ones to be dismissed?
It sounds to me that the Branch letter basically hinted toward the area of printing/distribution/packing/shipping, are such ones in those departments confined to these layoffs?
There can be alot of rumors, but I would like to know some truthful facts about such. Are there any "hidden" Bethelite lurkers posting here that can give us something concrete facts instead of speculation? I'm extra curious on this because I know quite a few who work at Bethel. Besides, why is only the U.S. Branch being effected?
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
-
43
Bethel meals
by Alligator Wisdom inhave any of you had the experience of eating with the bethel family?.
what were some of the idiosyncrasies of it?.
as i mentioned before in another thread, it was brought up to me by another jw guest after the meal that it was "as if this was like a cult" when everyone would drop their utensils on que, stand up in unison and end the meal with a prayer.
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
daniel-p said : Seriously though... I don't see why people are so fascinated with these stupid little details.
Perhaps we can go on and on with insignificant details and it wouldn't really matter. Most likely 99.9% of us were never in Bethel as a resident. Perhaps many of us were just visitors and only a handful of visitors actually got to eat with the Bethel family. Being an "outsider", if you will pardon the term, gave us a totally different perspective of the meal arrangement than one would ever think of. For those who had the opportunity to live at Bethel, than everything would one day seem just the norm as any resident would have to conform/understand/deal with their new environment. But you'll have to admit that it probably took a little getting used to, right?
Maybe many of us posted what seemed odd or peculiar from our viewpoint. Come over to my house for dinner one day and you'll probably note something different/uncommon/or even eccentric by the way my family does things too. At Bethel it just enlarges the proportions of such.
Yes, I have several friends in Bethel homes all over the world and I dined in over 11 different branch facilities. And yes, they are extremely organized with the meals. That throws me off "kilter" as I tend to dine at a leisurely pace, in private or public. But I do agree that the Branch facilities will have to enforce some sort of rule guideline or have to keep certain traditions in place in order to accomodate that many people in that amount of time every single day.
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
-
87
How many 'real" friends did you ever really have in ther "truth'
by The Lone Ranger insure we got to know a lot of people, we knew a lot more people then the average person, but how many real friends did we ever have?
a friend that we could trust, that we could confine in.
i can say i had just one, bro x and even then i still had to be careful, bro x is an elder now and he tells me that im the only real friend hes ever had, he cant freely talk to anyone.
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
One.
He is a dear friend and I love him unconditionally. He recently became inactive over the last year. He and I were very zealous. We talked about everything and still do. He knows my stand now and can relate and understand. When I first started to doubt the WTS, he was very sympathetic and understanding and didn't judge me at all and really tried to help. My wife and I are grateful to have him as our friend and we can always trust him. Wish I had more who are still in the organization.
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
-
43
Bethel meals
by Alligator Wisdom inhave any of you had the experience of eating with the bethel family?.
what were some of the idiosyncrasies of it?.
as i mentioned before in another thread, it was brought up to me by another jw guest after the meal that it was "as if this was like a cult" when everyone would drop their utensils on que, stand up in unison and end the meal with a prayer.
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
Ever notice the plates and dishes (chinaware) and eating utensils?
All the chinaware were white and the same at all the Branch dining rooms wherever I went throughout the world. I asked about it and was told that there must be conformity and simplicity. In fact, at the Korea and Japan branches that I ate at, no chopsticks were used either while their own culture says so otherwise. By the way, I took a look and the bottom of the plates and noticed that they had the Watchtower insignia. Did they make their own chinaware too? There weren't any "Corningware, Gibson, Noritake, Mikasa...etc", some of the more popular and readily available chinaware on the market.
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
-
43
Bethel meals
by Alligator Wisdom inhave any of you had the experience of eating with the bethel family?.
what were some of the idiosyncrasies of it?.
as i mentioned before in another thread, it was brought up to me by another jw guest after the meal that it was "as if this was like a cult" when everyone would drop their utensils on que, stand up in unison and end the meal with a prayer.
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
Have any of you had the experience of eating with the Bethel family?
What were some of the idiosyncrasies of it?
As I mentioned before in another thread, it was brought up to me by another JW guest after the meal that it was "as if this was like a cult" when everyone would drop their utensils on que, stand up in unison and end the meal with a prayer. All this was done with utmost precision and timing. If you were a first time guest, it would throw you off because you would still have the napkin tucked in your shirt with a mouthful of food while chewing while everyone was racing to follow suit of the official meal ending ritual. This happens at all Bethel families as I had eaten with them at branch facilities in America, Europe and Asia.
Anyone notice some oddities? I'm sure that you all did.
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
-
30
Did you ever hear any active witness complain or criticize the Org?
by JH in.
it seems to me that all the jw's i knew while going to the meetings, weather they were spiritually strong or weak, never criticized.
they were like real sheep.. i used to always bitch about the length of the meetings and the time of the meetings and so on.....when i drove the brothers back home in my car or talked to them in private.. naturally i would only say this to my closer jw friends or those i knew wouldn't squeal on me.. .
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
At Bethel meals begin and END with a prayer? What's the deal with having to say a prayer at the end of one's meal?
Yes, all meals in the dining rooms begin and end with prayer. Why? I don't know. Maybe to give extra thanks or to look extra spiritual.
Believe it or not, a branch committe member gave a talk at our last Special Assembly Day (SAD) and said that it should be considered by all family heads to follow such a fine
exampleritual of ending our meals with a prayer. Needless to say, do we really need such direction? Shouldn't our pure motive prompt us to do so if desired instead of trying to emulate the Bethel family?Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
-
30
Did you ever hear any active witness complain or criticize the Org?
by JH in.
it seems to me that all the jw's i knew while going to the meetings, weather they were spiritually strong or weak, never criticized.
they were like real sheep.. i used to always bitch about the length of the meetings and the time of the meetings and so on.....when i drove the brothers back home in my car or talked to them in private.. naturally i would only say this to my closer jw friends or those i knew wouldn't squeal on me.. .
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
Yes, plenty of times. However, much had to do with petty and trivial matters. For example...
**********
"How come the Society scheduled our CA and DC within a month from each other?"
"Isn't it odd that all the Bethel facilities are more than well to do when in light of basic functionality? Why do they use our donations to make fine Spanish wood mahogany contribution boxes in Bethal lobbies?"
"Weren't you surprised when all of a sudden during the last part of the meal (while invited to eat at Bethel), everyone would drop their utensils on some sort of que, quickly stand up in unison, and then end the meal with a prayer. Everything was perfectly timed with utmost precision. It looked as if this was a cult!"
**********
Yes my dear fellow board members, "it looked as if this was a cult" was said to me at Bethel by a fellow guest JW.
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
-
32
Big Announcement
by choosing life ini can't help but wonder why if there is really some ground shaking announcement coming that the elders already know, then why has no one posted any real information about it?
i was under the impression that there are active elders on this forum.
why are they holding back?
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
I'm speculating here, but I have to think that it does have to do with cash flow.
It was brought up in another thread:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/119399/2.ashx
I am leaning toward what Gary Buss had to say regarding the WTS finding a way to charge for literature again. Yes, it is possible. The WTS will charge each publisher for all magazines/publications having the reason that it will be each publishers responsibilty and/or desire to obtain such. What each publisher will do with it, as in placements in FS, would be up to them on how to reimburse themselves or to view it has a "sacrifice" when distributing them at no cost if the householder chooses not to donate. Personal copies of publications would have to be purchased, of course. This will make each member in the congregation think twice about obtaining literature so as NOT to waste it. (You all know how many extras you had on your bookshelves and closetst and how many the pioneers had in the trunks of the automobiles). I'm sure that this will really would be cost effective on behalf of the WTS.
Like I said, just speculating.
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)
P.S. = Still waiting on the real news. I'm sure that an elder (sir82 perhaps) will enlighten us when he deems necessary.
-
40
Entertaining yourself during the meetings
by Mysterious inwhat did you do to entertain yourself during the meetings?
i always had little games i played.
to this day i have a fascination with notebooks and write almost compulsively when something is wrong.
-
-
Alligator Wisdom
Me as a young child?
Stick figure animation!
The kind where you would draw stick figure people on each page of a publication while making out a story line. Once finished, I would flip/skim the pages with my thumb and see my own production of a movie. I got pretty good at it too. [The mid-1950's thru the-mid 1970's 400+ page publications were the best to use]. Yes, I would periodically need a new Bible as well because all the pages were used up!
Alligator Wisdom (aka Brother NOT Exerting Vigorously by WTS standards)